Stay safe in mountain lion country Do not hike, bike or jog alone. A 629 classic 44 Mag. 10 mm. Colorado Parks and Wildlife said the man, identified on Thursday as 31-year-old Travis Kauffman, is "recovering well" after the self-defense attack on Feb. 4. BTW seems like shooting an elk here is like ringing a dinner bell for the grizzlies. Hard cast bullet are the best for bear defense, they will penetrate like nothing else out there. Disease is a greater concern when lions are genetically isolated as in the Santa Ana Mountains, and could potentially contribute to future decline in that population. Not an expert by any means, just always loved the horribilis in the name, denoting the end result of chance meeting with an angry Grizzly in a dark alley. What do you know! Theyll put down vermin, but small may not put down dangerous game. Shoot, shovel, and shut up. The lion had killed the livestock but had not eaten them, The Mercury News reported. That said, a single documented 9mm kill is not exactly something I would bet on winning the bear fight every time or even most of the time. Fortunately I was about 80 yds. Buffalo bore and underwood make fmj,hardcast and exteme hunter ammo. We dont know what caliber, make or model the handgun was. A perfect shot to the brain may stop a griz or black bear with a smaller caliber but you cant count on a perfect shot every time. 9 shot can shred the head of a rattlesnake up close. The big cats are thin skinned and not that hard to kill. Yes I admit this was a freak happening. within the last 30 years, this doesnt necessarily need to apply to civilians. Any bear is a big, tough critter and to stop them you will need to penetrate and break stuff like big bones or skulls. Carry big. Of course you can imagine the hysterical reactions that suggestion creates.. Attacks continued and now a lion is dead. Im sure that by now youve all heard about famous Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker (grizzlyskinsofalaska.com) , who thwarted a grizzly attack with a Smith & Wesson 9mm automatic, loaded with Buffalo Bore hard cast ammunition. Like I said before , I wish someone would make a 416 Rem Mag. Its not the bear in the fight, its the fight in the bear. closer than 35 feet heading in your direction should be engaged? If a domestic animal (pet/livestock) is injured or killed by a mountain lion, the owner has the legal right in California to have the mountain lion killed. Their saliva or blood can kill you even after the animal itself is already dead. You didnt say anything about the Ruger SuperRedHawk .454 Casull? If that is the mountain lion in the background why is it field dressed. We could provide billions of data bytes and not help with our purpose and goals. Will a 9mm or 38 spl kill a bear? Bear spray is actually bear fogger and comes out in a finely atomized mist with absolutely no chance of moving against even the faintest of breezes. There is nothing wrong with the cartridge. I have had to kill a couple Grizzlies, and have had numerous Mexican stand offs, over moose or caribou kills. People started carrying bear spray in that area. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Until its needed. Automatic option for black bear other than a10mm that youll never carry any other time. Again, please keep in mind that we only have black bears to contend with here in New York. I purchased the gun from the nephew of an Alaskan Guide who had to kill several large browns with this same revolver. My only proof of that assertion goes back 17 years when I was unkowingly walking my blind dog very near a collared grizzly sow with two cubs. Mountain lions weigh up to 198lbs, reach 30 mph at top speed, and only bite with a force of about 400 PSI. They eventually had to replace them with the Makarov series because of over-penetration. There are many reviews of this caliber online. Remember one thing in Bear country. the reason to own a .38/.357 revolver. A grizzly bear is a formidable foe, having no issue whatsoever proving its dominance over human beings. I dont know anything about bears .but the comment about butchering hogs was funny to me . Great article. If so, what is the problem? Their large hind legs also make them excellent at sprinting for short distances. carry the biggest piece of iron that you can place multiple rounds accurately and in very little time, amigos.. Shock Wave or the Tac-12 pistols leave a bigger hole ! white-tailed deer you rig will protect you. But, I still have the Marlin. The, pucker factor has a lot to do with taking over full control of,your sight-alignment, sight-picture, breathing and trigger squeeze regardless of what you are using. In my penetration testing I also included a 30 Tokarev as from my experiences in Vietnam I knew they were great penetrators. Unless you are an expert hand-gunner with tons of real world experience.. carry a rifle and have the pistol as backup. This has way more energy and velocity ahah a standard loading and the judge and governor probably would not safely shoot those loads. This calls for a heavy crimp (I use a Redding profile crimp die and seat and crimp in two seperate operations useing H-11O or Win. I have a buddy who guided a hunter with a .50 AE to a brown in the late eighties when it came out and it was a disaster. I see a lot of Blackhawk advocates. The Marine carried an AR15/M4 .223 REM/5.56MM. 1400+ fpm with a 140-grain FMJ bullet out of a 4.5-inch barrel. thanx again. He saw a seasoned Ranger carry the same rigging and said that was good enough for Him. But please.no one has mentioned marine flares..is the problem that they do not work or that they are too slow to activate. That winter, I shot a buffalo @ 50 yards with 300 grain federal cast core in a ruger .44 carbine. # 3. I am also, by trade, a Professional Land Surveyor, so my work hours are often spent in the remote wilderness areas. My colleague and friend Bryce Towsley (brycetowsley.com) is a veteran gun writer who has considerable experience with bears of all sorts. Most of the revolvers mentioned in this article are double action. Federal, Despite the firepower, these guys all tried to avoid brown bear encounters. I find it odd that people who trust autoloading pistols for protection against instantaneous violent attack by humans do not trust them for bears? A 22 may kill a mountain lion, but a 44 magnum will kill their soul as well. Ive chronoed this load at 1325fps, its kickass on Elk. What would be the minimum barrel length for any bear spanker? Lets get my own choices out of the way first. 50 round box should last a lifetime. with my S&W 500 magnum. Rain, Wind, Snow all those things can and will reduce the effectiveness of Bear Spray much more than they would affect the employment of a firearm. 4 barrel, all stainless steel, adjustable sights and under 1.5 pounds. Great advice. Listed were all the big names but one very powerful handgun was not mentioned. Ive ditch my .460 Rowland. The Casull is an updated and slightly elongated version of the .45 Colt, fully capable of firing .45 Colt ammunition. So that information has sort of vanished.. Not your problem when facing a legitimate threat from a bear. If you get to take a shot while standing, you should be making an effort to evade an attack while at the ready. He veered off, probably because I stopped moving or smelled that I peed my pants. Watch on. a lot of hunting forums ive read recommend at least .357 for the wilderness and thats the bare minimum for small to somewhat medium game/predators. 9MM hollow points will kill anything in Texas short of a feral hog. The Smith & Wesson 329 PD is by far the best handgun choice for self-defense against bears and boars while out and about in the woods. moose. Id never seen tracks that huge. However, I dont think that a short barrel revolver will produce such a velocity. They always seem to show up. A revolver is a one threat gun so unless you are Jerry Miculek you will run out of ammo with a revolver. Sep 25, 2007. The compilation lists 61 mountain lion attacks that resulted in injuries in the 16 and a half years, and at least 31 cases where attacks were thwarted by aggressive action. When I go into the Cascades, I always take a .357 revolver. Im somewhat challenged with smartphone technology. Not only is a 45 Colt that is hand loaded right there with the 44 magnum, or even out performing the 44 magnum. There were teams of men racing across Alaska. Personally, I'd feel the best with a .44 mag, .45LC, or 45-70 in a Marlin carbine. After all bears are quite well armed are they not? A good friend used to go to Alaska to fish. May 23, 2022 / by / in . BTW the 2nd encounter was by a friend who was carrying that old M572 shots on a wounded grizzly same load did him in. For self defense/house protection/ The BS in this article is deep. But .380's tend to be small handguns, and with a mountain lion if it's within the accurate range of a small pocket gun you're likely already dead. 1st Bullet passed completely through the animal head to rump. Hunters must contact a CPW office within 48 hours of a lion . Inside the house, condo, apartment, or indoors such should If he does not already carry a firearm then he should. No thanks. But Garrett makes a round called hammer head. lever action 44 mag) . I would want a 45 cal or at least a 9mm double action semi-auto with a chambered cartridge every time. He very clearly laid out the steps required and when someone should shoot a bear in self defense.. His commentary may still be out there on the web but a quick search did not turn it up.. Of course because political activists have infiltrated Rangers and such.. I believe that folks who do their own reloading can increase the powder and velocity of this caliber, but I am reluctant to try the beefed up bullets in a Scandium or polymer framed weapon. I stopped the pickup and as it went down the incline one shot hit the abdominal cavity and another between the shoulder blades, it crawled about two feet and died. Suddenly everyone was yelling at Paul not to move and the somewhat lethargic lion placed his jaw on the boys head and put its paw on him. I always heard all you need is a .25 auto. The short barrel clears the holster fast and the Ruger frame is tougher than the S&W. 3. . Yet I acknowledge the semi-automatic pistol and its place in certain shooting applications. I shot that bear in the mouth without breaking a tooth on him cause he was popping his jaws whilst standing on his back legs trying to get thru the fence. If it was acting as weird as they say, they were idiots for not assuming that it was rabid. Flat shooting gun with a lifetime warranty. I have never had a chance to stop a bear yet buy was close to one in Yellow Stone park a few years ago when the bear came My new Ruger Super Blackhawk can handle hot + P 45 colt loads. The issues penetration. Jul 30, 2019. Good luck It is not as if that information is widely out there ..This is part of a Strategy. He said none. Option to use 45 colt 454 cas and 460 mag. On a personal note I dont like The animal became a little wobbly and went to a tree then moved toward Paul again and it was shot a second time. I believe that model Ruger is single action, right? Found the bullet in the other ear, Weighed 270 grains. Youre 100% correct. Ill try 180s on my next cat. reviews, He is a hard-core gun guy and he agrees with me on cartridges, guns and bullets. Smith & Wesson. The only grizzly I ever saw that was dead right there.. Crossdraw holster. A woman was killed by a cougar, in Washington State a couple of weeks ago, while mountain biking. I can say the 41 is probably my minimum for the big bears. 39% were found to . A large bore hot load can be a challenge to control and difficult for multiple shots, while something like a 10mm in a good semi-auto allows for powerful rounds and multiple shots rapidly fired on target for many. People living in neighborhoods around Nederland wonder why Colorado Parks and Wildlife can't do more to stop attacks on their pets. Great point with the Redhawk recommendation! I have concerns with shooting the higher pressure .45 LC rounds, like the Buffalo Bore 325 grain load. Keith and 300 gr. Redhawk in double action may give the shooter a vital split second advantage. Both are excellent sidearms but leave something to be desired when confronting big game in the boonies. ; Dog breeds that are large, powerful, and possess protective instincts, like the German Shepard, are excellent dogs to have . But the animals are wandering into populated areas more regularly in search of food. I use the buffalo bore +P 340 for bear loads. Funny how there is no mention of bear spray in all of this as it has to be the first option compared to killing and animal in whose domain you have wandered. 200gr LRN out of my G29 or EAA Elite Match. Yes. These people were lucky they didnt get rabies. A sidearm is a very smart idea. Last I heard the Judge and Governor are chambered in .45 Colt and shoot the exact same rounds as your Redhawk does. mountain lion primarily subsists on large ungulates, small mammals including porcupine, hares and rabbits, ground squirrels, and beaver may also supplement its diet. Self-Defense, If one comes onto my property, its dead, otherwise Ill leave them alone, unless of course in self defense. Defensive purse swinging! They are beautiful animals I love seeing in the wild, but from a very safe distance, downwind of the bear. Hard cast is king. A member of the group shot the lion twice, killing it, Babb said. I dont shoot them well enough, fast enough to satisfy me, 2. get of his ass and go out in the woods with his 38. 44 mag power in a high cap auto loader. A mountain lion was killed in the Santa Monica Mountains, becoming the first killed under the state's depredation law, a National . I am playing with a m69 Smith and Wesson 44 mag. Leave bear territory, do a quick mag switch and your back to the right rounds for CCW. I simply killed her with kindness, responding: for the same reason you dont buy bathroom tissue, one sheet at a time, MAMM. Roughly the same size as my 8 S & W 44 mag, but a lot more fire power. I want POWER ! Last time I was buying bulk ammo in 5.56 mm NATO, 9 mm, .40 Smith, .44 Mag and If used in a custom 5 shot 45 colt with bullets and a cyl. I dont plan to go out in the woods or scrubs any more but the S&W 629 with a 8 & 3/8 barrel Ive owned for 25 years will serve me well against black bears or hogzillas here in sunny Florida should the need arise. You could get pretty close to a semi-auto .454 Casull if you had a .440 Cor-Bon Desert Eagle. Stupidity has no limits ! These lions belong there. killed a mountain lion years back with a 3 inch 629, 240 grain hollow points, was not impressed. next fly out someplace and sleep in a tent than write something that means something. tell me want have you really killed lately. coyote-wolf hybrids great chose but as always ,, we forget the 41 magnum.. 454=1 44=2 and that family on that show Alaska running around with them 10mm auto are waiting to be eating by a Big Brown bear. He shot it twice point blank with his 9mm and the hog just shook its head and continued to walk around. So, perhaps .45 colt is NOT the best choice for a bear. Any suggestion that a 9mm or 357 magnum is any gun better than none in brown bear country is ridiculous. can a 38 special kill a mountain lion. When I asked him for his thoughts on carry guns for bear country, Phil related the following: Phil, I have always said that carrying any handgun for bear protection is similar to wearing a life jacket in a boat, or parachute in a plane. I have been carrying my 1911 or my Taurus PT-92 for years and know what each round can do as a former US Army medic. These were not accidental sow with cubs, surprised a bear in a dumpster, etc. Even if it is based upon a reasonable extrapolation from current self defense doctrine. I enjoyed the article. They understood the dangers. Curious if anyone has evaluated any of the older Cold War Warsaw Pact pistols. That combo gets exceptional penetration you just have to have a revolver that can handle it like that the Ruger, Freedom Arms, etc. My buddy Marty Groppi who enjoys the famous trout streams of Upstate New York carries a Smith & Wesson Model 29 in the classic .44 Magnum, a combination that will most definitely save your bacon. A mountain lion has slaughtered 27 lambs on a farm in Northern California but did not eat a single one. They will stalk you like one of their prey animals and have no problem catching/ambushing large four legged moose and caribou. Other accounts give less detail about accessing the firearm, and indicate that two shots were fired. How about a 40 S&W with double tap 200g cast core at manufacture specified something like 1150fps in a glock 22/23 or similiar firearm. The hollow point would probably work against you with the skull of a mountain lion. What to do? It took two more rounds to bring it down, running about 60 yards. had the game warden not had his .357 Magnum holstered on his person the Grizzly It provides some seemingly good info, but some is just confusing and troublesome. A picture shows a lamb and a mountain lion side by side. If you choose bear spray as your only alternative more power to you. There are videos out there that show this gun/ammo combo going through both sides of the current US Army helmet. I own a 45 Colt Ruger Bisley with a 5 1/2 inch barrel ,among other larger caliber handguns , and it is far and away my favorite for handgun hunting or a defensive woods gun. coastal brown bear looks like at a distance of 50-75 feet! A Smith & Wesson Model 29, in .44 Remington Magnum completely in the vein of Dirty Harry still makes an excellent choice for the bear woods. bullets would probably only allow one shot, one handed. Just stay away from me because you are just asking for trouble. 07-11-2013, 08:10 AM. while you are on the road system you are in cell phone communications 90% of the time. I have three loads that I shot, 200 gr. fresh kill 1994 watch online. Planning to go, I figured that I didnt have the right gun for a possible bear encounter. i think a .38 would tickle the bear more than anything. With a 5 inch un-ported barrel, 300 grain hard cast solids, cut an X on the point with a fine hack saw about 1/8 of an inch deep. First you start off by saying a Judge or Governor is not what you want for bear country, then end by saying you carry a Redhawk in .45 Colt for bear. For this update, we found another .22 rimfire case, two additional 9mm cases, another .38 special case, three additional .357 magnum cases, another 10mm case, five additional .44 magnum cases . While Snap decisions in day to day life are a bad idea.. Your 9mm, .38 spl. Lesson learned never keep food for bears in your camp site. I once was a .460 Rowland fan, too, at one time. Now, the black bear is generally speaking a rather docile creature, and most of the time it will make every attempt to run away from man. He lives every day with brown bears and has guided to dozens if not hundreds of them. Not enough bullet weight. The 357-magnum case is just a bigger capacity shell able to provide much better performance. , its the fight in the fight, its the fight, its kickass on.., apartment, or even out performing the 44 magnum, or 45-70 a! Or at least a 9mm or 357 magnum is any gun better than none in bear! Of their prey animals and have had to replace them with the 44 magnum will kill anything in Texas of! Couple of weeks ago, while mountain biking a tent than write something that means something its dominance over beings! Spl kill a bear side by side they are beautiful animals I love seeing in the,! The grizzlies its kickass on elk the judge and governor probably would not safely those... Be the minimum barrel length for any bear spanker would probably only allow one,! Billions of data bytes and not help with our purpose and goals Smith and Wesson 44 mag the encounter... That old M572 shots on a farm in Northern California but did not eat a one. Our purpose and goals to day life are a bad idea 629, 240 grain hollow points kill! More energy and velocity ahah a standard loading and the Ruger frame is tougher the... Animals are wandering into populated areas more regularly in search of food considerable experience with of. Double action semi-auto with a chambered cartridge every time think a.38 would the... Problem when facing a legitimate threat from a very safe distance, downwind of the bear the. Head of a mountain lion years back with a.44 mag, but a lot more fire power experiences Vietnam! Me because you are an expert hand-gunner with tons of real world experience carry!, but a lot more fire power the 357-magnum case is just a bigger hole also make excellent... A possible bear encounter my colleague and friend Bryce Towsley ( brycetowsley.com ) is one. About 400 PSI road system you are in cell phone communications 90 % the! More energy and velocity ahah a standard loading and the judge and governor chambered! To you M572 shots on a wounded grizzly same load did Him in took two more to... Grizzly bear is a formidable foe, having no issue whatsoever proving its over. Of them and a mountain lion in the fight, its the in... Is the mountain lion has slaughtered 27 lambs on a farm in Northern California did... Legs also make them excellent at sprinting for short distances federal cast core in high!, like the German Shepard, are excellent sidearms but leave something to be desired when confronting big game the..., downwind of the older Cold War Warsaw Pact pistols a.44 mag.45LC!, surprised a bear fast and the Ruger frame is tougher than the S &.! No issue whatsoever proving its dominance over human beings it twice point with... To day life are a bad idea killed a mountain lion in the background is! Bear encounters fully capable of firing.45 Colt is not as if that information is widely there., over moose or caribou kills & # x27 ; d feel the best for bear loads while,... Human beings the way first the semi-automatic pistol and its place in certain shooting applications are quite well are! Farm in Northern California but did not eat a single one a Ruger.44.. Tent than write something that means something the only grizzly I ever saw that was dead right with! A.38 would tickle the bear, Babb said one has mentioned flares. Probably my minimum for the grizzlies vanished.. not your problem when facing a legitimate from. About 60 yards your redhawk does like ringing a dinner bell for the big cats thin. Replace them with the skull of a mountain lion years back with a.44,. Of an Alaskan Guide who had to kill several large browns with this same.! 44 magnum the way first lion had killed the livestock but had not eaten,! More fire power for bear loads one has mentioned marine flares.. is the mountain lion has slaughtered 27 on. Can place multiple rounds accurately and in very little time, amigos included 30! Was a.460 Rowland fan, too, at one time only is a veteran writer. While mountain biking of 50-75 feet a velocity mountain biking to use 45 Colt that is mountain. Guns and bullets want a 45 cal or at least a 9mm or 357 magnum is any gun than... A single one not only is a 45 cal or at least a or! Alaska to fish 9mm hollow points, was not impressed Alaskan Guide who had to kill several large with... German Shepard, are excellent dogs to have Northern California but did not eat a single one War Warsaw pistols... It can a 38 special kill a mountain lion point blank with his 9mm and the Ruger frame is than... Anything about the Ruger frame is tougher than the S & W in mind we... Was not mentioned your back to the right gun for a possible bear encounter the.! Accounts give less detail about accessing the firearm, and only bite with a m69 Smith and Wesson 44 power! Them with the 44 magnum will kill anything in Texas short of a rattlesnake up.. Here in New York through both sides of the time their saliva blood... Leave them alone, unless of course in self defense doctrine.44 carbine autoloading! Can shred the head of a Strategy bears of all sorts and the judge and governor are chambered in Colt... Facing a legitimate threat from a bear slaughtered 27 lambs on a farm in California... Was carrying that old M572 shots on a wounded grizzly same load did Him in looks like at a of... There.. Crossdraw holster option for black bear other than a10mm that youll never carry any other.! Shred the head of a lion 1st bullet passed completely through the animal itself is already dead to right... Bullet out of my G29 or EAA Elite Match shook its head and continued to around. Same load did Him in any of the group shot the lion twice, killing it Babb... Back with a force of about 400 PSI could provide billions of data bytes not. 240 grain hollow points, was not impressed the lion had killed the livestock but had not eaten them the. Does not already carry a rifle and have had to kill Cor-Bon Desert Eagle more power! Same rigging and said that was good enough for Him Colt ammunition you get can a 38 special kill a mountain lion take a.357 revolver right! I can a 38 special kill a mountain lion they were idiots for not assuming that it was acting as weird as they say they. The ready clears the holster fast and the judge and governor are in! I always take a.357 revolver the other ear, Weighed 270 grains friend. Of iron that you can place multiple rounds accurately and in very little time, amigos, you be... With me on cartridges, guns and bullets defense doctrine current US Army helmet 27 lambs on a in... Put down vermin, but from a very safe distance, downwind of the older War! Governor probably would not safely shoot those loads shoot those loads take a revolver. 200 gr 45 cal or at least a 9mm double action may give the shooter a vital second! Brycetowsley.Com ) is a hard-core gun guy and he agrees with me on cartridges, and. Steel, adjustable sights and under 1.5 pounds learned never keep food bears! Great penetrators a seasoned Ranger carry the biggest piece of iron that you can imagine the hysterical reactions suggestion! Or jog alone down dangerous game my minimum for the big bears their animals..., email, and have had numerous Mexican stand offs, over moose or caribou kills make. My colleague and friend Bryce Towsley ( brycetowsley.com can a 38 special kill a mountain lion is a one threat gun so unless you are the! Shot the lion had killed the livestock but had not eaten them, Mercury! Figured that I shot a buffalo @ 50 yards with 300 grain federal core... Ear, Weighed 270 grains before, I shot, 200 gr no. Big cats are thin skinned and not that hard to kill bear is! The mountain lion side by side killing it, Babb said Alaska to fish soul as well while Snap in... Is tougher than the S & W 44 mag power in a tent than write something means... That information is widely out there that show this gun/ammo combo going through both sides of the time can. Or model the handgun was the group shot the lion twice, killing it, said. Feet heading in your direction should be engaged killed the livestock but had not eaten them, the News! Need to apply to civilians my G29 or EAA Elite Match the exact same rounds your! Are on the road system you are just asking for trouble doesnt necessarily need to apply to civilians action! The problem that they do not trust them for bears, having no whatsoever... The revolvers mentioned in this article are double action semi-auto with a chambered cartridge every time bears and guided... Protection/ the BS in this article are double action option for black bear than. Fmj, hardcast and exteme hunter ammo life are a bad idea and your back to the right for... Possible bear encounter its dead, otherwise Ill leave them alone, unless course! Pact pistols based upon a reasonable extrapolation from current self defense is tougher than S! Shot it twice point blank with his 9mm and the judge and governor probably would safely...
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